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Emote Control

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Jun 14 11 1:34 AM

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I couldn't find it again, but the C-Tech core book mentioned that the Mi-Go have only 318 distinct personality types. When I thought about the consequences of this, I came up with some explanations for the Mi-Go behavior that I think make more sense than the "lack of selfishness" given in Mortal Remains. Tell me what you think.

Each human and Nazzadi is a distinct individual, a personality never seen before and never to be seen again. We often fall into predictable lines, but so do snowflakes and they are unique as well. We are shaped by our experiences, both internal and external, into who we are uniquely.

Mi-Go are not. They are born with one of the 318 personalities, and that is it. They have different internal and external experiences, of course, but these experiences do not shape them. A Mi-go is the same creature at a year of age as it is a hundred years of age. Not only that, but the personalities of the Mi-Go are in a sense "simpler" than those of humans or Nazzadi, more linear and less prone to sudden shifts in emotion.

This has a number of notable consequences for Mi-Go society. The first is that the Mi-Go all know how all the other is going to react, all the time. This is the cause of the Mi-Go's amazing military coordination, because they can predict each other so well they need much less discipline and chains of command than the NEG does. Similarly, the Mi-Go government and economy run with staggering efficiency -- every Mi-Go is directed into a profession which suits their strain best, a profession it can perform competently and happily, and every Mi-Go is again able to predict how its actions will affect other Mi-Go so they don't make mistakes as much. This predictive power is not perfect, since each Mi-Go may not know the other Mi-Go's exact circumstances, but it is extremely accurate.

Were it not for their coordination, the Mi-Go would be much less of a threat. They could never have organized themselves behind the construction of the Nazzadi fleet in such a short time. They could not have produced the Hive Ship at all, much less a second Hive Ship.

The question will naturally be asked why the NEG can't use the Mi-Go's predictive natures to anticipate the actions of their foes. There are two reasons. One is that the NEG doesn't know about it. Manipulative and Sensory para-psychics, at great risk to (and loss of) sanity, have probed the minds of Mi-Go either during battle or those of injured Mi-Go captured by the NEG, and have gathered enough information to know that the Mi-Go only fall into a few hundred personality types. But nobody in NEG does not appreciate how deep the Mi-Go predictability runs, given time NEG researchers will figure it out but they likely don't have it.

A deeper reason is that Mi-Go predictability is not simple. The Mi-go understand the nature of their strains genetically, and even they require a great deal of education to predict each other (they all receive this education at an incredibly young age, of course). The NEG does not have the intellectual resources required to develop the predictive capability in the time it has, it would take countless man-hours spread over decades of work for humanity to gain the ability to predict the Mi-Go enough to make a difference.

The Mi-Go strains are also the reason for the Mi-Go's cultural stasis. Since they have nobody who can break the rules, they don't advance unless some outside event (such as humanity's development of arcanotechnology) requires development in order to cope with it. They are capable of responding to such events very well, and once the threat is passed the Mi-Go incorporate the new advances into their society, but they do not progress otherwise. If the Mi-Go win the Aeon War, they will produce a total stasis of humanity as well. In fact this the largest part of the reason for their attacks on Earth -- they view us not just as a physical threat for our tampering with forbidden powers (though this is an element of it), but as a threat in the sense that Earth disturbs the stasis of their society.

Finally, the Mi-Go have no empathy. Human soldiers are trained to think of themselves as expendable for the greater good, but Mi-Go know from birth that they are not merely expendable but interchangable. This is why Mi-Go mecha have no escape pods -- it is not just that the life of the pilot is unimportant, but that the survival of the pilot is irrelevant. It simply never occurred to the Mi-Go designers to include it in their calculations. This also gives the Mi-Go commanders an advantage in that they can be more ruthless than NEG commanders -- they can order their troops to push themselves harder, and to take greater casualties, because they have no empathy for their troops. NEG generals must harden their hearts to such things, and thus they hesitate slightly, but Mi-Go generals do not.

Because the Mi-Go have no empathy, they have no morality. Most of the atrocities of human history -- from the African slave trade to the Holocaust to the Viking raids to Abu Gharib -- have occurred when the perpetrators convinced themselves that the victims were less than human. Not every human develops morality, in fact many never do (I've worked for some, in fact). But no Mi-Go ever develops morality, and thus they can institutionalize medical procedures and genocides upon humanity and Nazzadity (is that a word) which we couldn't do, not on the scale the Mi-Go are.

There are two exceptions to the rules above. One is those Mi-Go who worship the Great Old Ones, the corruption worship of their patrons brings to any race is enough to break worshipers out of their mold (pun not intended) -- and put them into a different mold, perhaps an even worse one. The other is that it is rare, but not unknown, for a Mi-Go to develop new personality traits. Such Mi-Go are quickly detected by their brethren because they become less predictable, and are gently chided to end their deviant ways. If the deviant continues, he is destroyed to preserve the stasis the Mi-Go so desire.

Cthulhu is coming! Look busy!

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#1 [url]

Jun 14 11 7:26 AM

Good one. I like it.

Talking about Migou, for a time I was thinking about another thing I want to discuss here. Migou are seen as a perfect machinery, a perfect clock, all of them work for the best of their race, all of them fit in their 318 personalities, there are no discussions between them, no disorders, all for one and one for all... Sometimes it reminds me the Soviet propaganda of the 50s, or the japanese at the II World War.

But what about if this is not really true? What about if there are Migou that are against the invasion (whatever reason, from "we can awake bad things" to "you killed the rat I was studying!!" to "Nyarhalottep and Hastur are the real enemies, not the humans"). Or what about the Migou that does not fit? Mother Nature likes evolution, likes changing things, likes chaos and creativity, is always messing with your puppies... so what about if there were a Migou "hidden" group of those that "not fit" and have survived? And what about those Migou that don't agree with the "I am expendable I worry not about my life please send me to die" filosophy? And if they ask for asylum?

What about if all the propaganda about the Migou is not 100% true?

What do you think about?

Lolth is my mother, the Migou are my fathers.

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sunphoenix

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Jun 14 11 11:20 AM

In Humans and in Nazzadi our individuality is developed though the personal experiences we are subjected to in life. Not entirely but our life experiences do have a large effect on how we view or choose to view the world... along some predictable lines. Hence the science of psychology. External influences can have an extreme effect on Human/Nazzadi personality with insanity causing the most dramatic change.

I think in the Mi-Go those individual units that would have dramatic change in personality from the 318 personalities would be the insane ones. Though what humanity considers insanity and what the Mi-Go consider insanity are vastly different!

Those Mi-Go who might actually be a new personality would be considered the insane of the Mi-Go because their actions would not be predictable.

Did "Mortal Remains" mention that Mi-Go have a communal telepathy or semi-racial empathy?

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#3 [url]

Jun 14 11 11:34 AM

As for Mi-Go that are different, there are Mi-Go cultists who support the cult factions in the Aeon War. These are viewed as something to be wiped out by "normal" Mi-Go as they dont follow the others codes of conduct. They are aborrations and Mi-Go dont like those born different to what they can quantify.

As a nice aside, the Mi-Go in the HPL tale "Whisperer in the Darkness" would count as Mi-Go cultists due to their apparent ritual to Nyarlothotep and Shub-Niggurath. Strangely they are still hunted by the King in Yellow's Disciples of the Unnameable, going from memory it is mentioned off-hand.

This is all mentioned in Mortal Remains, in the Migou section. I am pretty sure it was there if anywhere that the finite personalities was also mentioned.

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Emote Control

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#4 [url]

Jun 14 11 5:14 PM

dourden30 wrote:
Good one. I like it.

Talking about Migou, for a time I was thinking about another thing I want to discuss here. Migou are seen as a perfect machinery, a perfect clock, all of them work for the best of their race, all of them fit in their 318 personalities, there are no discussions between them, no disorders, all for one and one for all... Sometimes it reminds me the Soviet propaganda of the 50s, or the japanese at the II World War.

But what about if this is not really true? What about if there are Migou that are against the invasion (whatever reason, from "we can awake bad things" to "you killed the rat I was studying!!" to "Nyarhalottep and Hastur are the real enemies, not the humans"). Or what about the Migou that does not fit? Mother Nature likes evolution, likes changing things, likes chaos and creativity, is always messing with your puppies... so what about if there were a Migou "hidden" group of those that "not fit" and have survived? And what about those Migou that don't agree with the "I am expendable I worry not about my life please send me to die" filosophy? And if they ask for asylum?

What about if all the propaganda about the Migou is not 100% true?

What do you think about?


By allowing for the possibility that a Mi-Go can rarely experience growth, I was allowing for this. In theory, it is possible to have a benevolent Mi-Go NPC or even a PC.

But this should be a very difficult thing to do. Just because a Mi-Go is not totally part of the strains should not be taken to mean that it is sympathetic to humanity's interests or even our survival. For any emotional connection to form between a human and even a deviant Mi-Go, or for either party to truly empathize with how the other is feeling, is probably impossible. Any such relationship would be based purely on pragmatic considerations and fraught with tension, and the constant possibility of betrayal on both sides.

Any such Mi-Go will also be relentlessly hunted by its own side, and would never be trusted by any human or Nazzadi authority. It is just barely conceivable that individuals on our side could make a deal with such an individual Mi-Go, but only barely.

Cthulhu is coming! Look busy!

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#5 [url]

Jun 15 11 7:26 AM

Emote Control wrote:
By allowing for the possibility that a Mi-Go can rarely experience growth, I was allowing for this. In theory, it is possible to have a benevolent Mi-Go NPC or even a PC.

But this should be a very difficult thing to do. Just because a Mi-Go is not totally part of the strains should not be taken to mean that it is sympathetic to humanity's interests or even our survival. For any emotional connection to form between a human and even a deviant Mi-Go, or for either party to truly empathize with how the other is feeling, is probably impossible. Any such relationship would be based purely on pragmatic considerations and fraught with tension, and the constant possibility of betrayal on both sides.

Any such Mi-Go will also be relentlessly hunted by its own side, and would never be trusted by any human or Nazzadi authority. It is just barely conceivable that individuals on our side could make a deal with such an individual Mi-Go, but only barely.


Oh, I'm not talking about humans and Mi-Go empathising and understanding each other. I am talking about selfishmesh and pragmatism, a "forced allies" situation. And yes, that relation will be full of tension and expecting a betrayal but... of whitch of the parts (human or Mi-Go)? But this is the interesting part

For example:

A Mi-Go contingent has found an EOD base at the same time the NEG has... and both commanders decide to work together to destroy a commond thread, to use the forces of the other in his benefit would mean less casualties, more firepower and an oportunity of learning about the tactics of the other... and meanwhile designign a B-Plan for a possible betrayal of the other party... or of his own party. Tension is served.

Or players are captured by some sect an are put in a cell where there are also Mi-Go prisoners. Both sides will have to cooperate if they want to survive (the alternative is being sacrificed to some unnamed god...).

Lolth is my mother, the Migou are my fathers.

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Jun 16 11 1:29 PM

From my point of view, I'd say that the Mi'Go clone bodies (well, they are fungoids after all...) and they have just 318 "numbers", if you think about Galactica 2004's organic Cylons. I'd even make an analogy with "mind forking", meaning there are 318 Mi'Go in cloning tubes, their minds used as a HDD template to be installed in countless copies of their bodies.

As for the Mi'Go cultists, if there are any kind of periodic actualization (or coordination or whatever) what puts all the Mi'Go together to keep them being 318 different iterations instead of an increasing number of personalities with a common origin, then those cultists are truly a danger. They would be like plague-bearers, able to turn the entire race into servitors of Cthulhu, Haster, Nyarlathothep...

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Jun 16 11 7:38 PM

I'm pretty sure I read that the Mi-Go cannot clone themselves (thats why reinforcements are coming on the second Hive ship), I'll have to check to make sure, but I think they kind of let off spores that grow into kids, with the same personality, a little like budding off a clone of yourself.

The function they do use, whatever it is, cannot be infallible due to cultist Mi-Go appearing.

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Emote Control

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Jun 16 11 7:52 PM

No, the Mi-Go are not clones -- at least not as I see it. There is no forking -- two Mi-Go of the same strain can have very different experiences and training. But these memories do not change their personality the way different memories would change a human or Nazzadi.

They simply have 318 distinct personalities -- they can perhaps even choose what new personality the budding Mi-Go will develop, depending on what the economy and military has a need of at that moment in time. That was why the Mi-Go couldn't just invade themselves originally, and sent the Nazzadi. They didn't have enough of the personalities which are suitable for military uses, as soldiers or as generals. Because the Mi-Go personalities are so set, training civilians to be part of the military as human do in times of emergency wasn't an option. A whole generation had be raised, which would take decades.

The Mi-Go had enough military personalities at the time to deal with minor crises, and could probably have wiped out all the armies of Earth before the A-tech revolution. But they had insufficient personnel to deal with an entire planet of arcanotech equipped military forces.

As the appearance of the Mi-Go cultists, that's not the Mi-Go's fault. The power of the Great Old Ones affects the entire universe, and no culture or species is totally immune.

Finally, as stated in the original post, the Mi-Go do occasionally experience personal change. But then the Mi-Go culture comes into play -- they execute any Mi-Go who shows signs of doing such. It is possible that each of the current strain arose in this way -- a strain had a member who altered, and then when this individual budded the new Mi-Go were of a new strain.

Cthulhu is coming! Look busy!

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#9 [url]

Jun 17 11 11:23 AM

That makes sense, seeing if the "normal" Mi-Go dont have the numbers to suppress the specific personalitied "abnormal" ones, then that makes them a new strain.

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#10 [url]

Jun 20 11 8:38 AM

The "body cloning" I was refering had not to be automatically a "vat grown artificially created body": if there is no DNA (or whatever equivalent the Mi'Go use) alteration into the new being, then it's cloning.

I'd say the first Hive Ship didn't have the necessary resources to produce new Mi'Go (or maybe in the numbers required to make anything but cover some of the casualties); this can be because a lot of reasons, starting with the limitation of reproductive resources (so all the "babies" were left to grow/be incuvated on Pluto, in a paranoid thought about how fragile their existence would be in a frontline base), it could be that they didn't consider humanity able to fend the Mi'Go military at all, etc...

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Emote Control

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Jun 20 11 12:25 PM

It is stated in Mortal Remains that the Mi-Go expected the Hive Ship would win an easy victory, they possess technological, organizational, magical and even numerical superiority over the NEG. In fact they would have won such a victory, were it not for the unexpected arrival of Hastur's avatar and the appearance of the EOD.

Also, it is stated the Mi-Go DNA is in a constant state of flux, the budding process of the Mi-Go produces mental clones but not physical clones.

Cthulhu is coming! Look busy!

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#12 [url]

Jun 20 11 1:14 PM

I want to say that I read something about Mi-Go being perfectly capable of cloning themselves, but they will not because of very strong cultural beliefs. It would sort of make sense, they had no compunction about creating an entirely new race of humans, the Nazzadi. They also have no problem excising human brains from their bodies to operate their machines and such.

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#13 [url]

Jun 22 11 8:10 AM

Emote Control wrote:

Also, it is stated the Mi-Go DNA is in a constant state of flux, the budding process of the Mi-Go produces mental clones but not physical clones.


Sorry, here I have a great mess in my head, thanks to the old CoC, Delta Green, and now Cthulhutech XD. I think they can "adapt" to different situations thanks to being fungoid beings, amd that they were able to "repurpose" all their cells, including the need to choose between "think power" and memory, because they thought more like a computer than doing the ilogical steps humanity does (skipping parts of the reasoning process, from example from A to D without stepping on B or C), so to me they all had a "base" genetical template :S

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Emote Control

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Jun 22 11 8:39 AM

Anariel wrote:
Emote Control wrote:


Sorry, here I have a great mess in my head, thanks to the old CoC, Delta Green, and now Cthulhutech XD. I think they can "adapt" to different situations thanks to being fungoid beings, amd that they were able to "repurpose" all their cells, including the need to choose between "think power" and memory, because they thought more like a computer than doing the ilogical steps humanity does (skipping parts of the reasoning process, from example from A to D without stepping on B or C), so to me they all had a "base" genetical template :S


I deal with the cognitive dissonance by thinking of Call of Cthulhu, Delta Green, Trail of Cthulhu and Cthulhutech as being alternate universes with similar but distinct inhabitants, like the Final Fantasy games or the Power Ranger series.

But anyway, real world fungi don't adapt to different situations, the Mi-Go have nothing in common with fungi except for a few aspects of external appearance. The fact that it is possible to write flavor fic from the Mi-Go perspective indicates that they are closer to humans in thought pattern than in CoC as well.

Cthulhu is coming! Look busy!

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